Andrew Chen
Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Westchester, which is just north of the city. In a town called Scarsdale. Once I left, I went to Chicago for school.
Would you come into the city a lot when you were younger?
We would drive to Chinatown because there were no good groceries or restaurants where we lived. It’s a commuter town in the suburbs, and a lot of people would work in Manhattan and take the Metro-North in. For us, cooking Chinese food at home, you’d just need the right vegetables, sauces, and whatnot. I know the FDR drive very well. We would drive in all the time for that. And as I got older, high school, I would take the Metro-North into visit Manhattan.
Would you go to any particular spots?
Yeah, I think earlier on I would go to Saint Mark’s a lot with an older friend who was showing me all the places to buy used CDs. That’s what we would do; there were like six [shops] on that one block. It had already changed quite a bit, but it was still a lot grimmer than it is now. As far as clothing, that would be later on in high school. I would come into visit Union. A lot of my formative years as far as really getting into clothes were finding stuff online. The internet was a totally different place then; I discovered a lot of really cool underground street brands on a website called Digital Gravel. Back then, streetwear was a totally different thing. There were either owner-operated tiny brands, or you had big urban brands that you would find in the mall. Like Academics, it was urban wear. Streetwear before streetwear was really a term. And they were based mostly on the east and the west coast. A lot of them were artists or graffiti writers, graphic designers or musicians, that wanted this creative outlet. Digital Gravel was the first place online where I saw that all pulled together and curated really well. And through that, you’d start to discover shops that would carry it. There weren’t very many at the time. I’d argue there were probably five good streetwear shops back in the early 2000s and late ’90s. I graduated from college in ’97, so I went to Chicago, and one of those shops was called Leaders 1354, and they were in Hyde Park, which was where my college campus was, and they were right next to Harold’s Chicken Shack which is a legendary fried chicken spot. I remember when we started the brand, and I was just hustling out of my backpack and trying to show people these colored copies of designs we wanted to sell. I walked in, and they picked us up from our first season. It was pretty special. I remember when we started 3sixteen, Johan [Lam] and I set these really lofty goals of trying to get into these legendary stores that we grew up admiring. For him, it was a shop on Haight Street called True in San Francisco. And we ended up selling there.
How early did you get into the “goal” stores?
It took a few years; some came around quickly. As far as I know, when he was growing up, True was the store for him. Union for me was important but also Reed Space, rest in peace. I would come into the Lower East Side to visit Reed Space and Alife. The Lower East Side was a totally different neighborhood then too. When we opened up our first downtown Manhattan office at 151 #BB Allen street, we were right across the street from Reed Space. I was able to walk over and talk to them and check-in, see how things were selling. I never would have imagined having visited those shops and learned so much from them, discovered new things, that that would be a place for our brand to exist and add to the conversation.
Which I’m sure is such a wonderful feeling to look outside your office window and see the store that got you into that office in the first place.
Do you remember the first piece or moment that changed it for you?
I’m trying to remember the first thing I actually wanted. I find that to be interesting. I never really hung out with bad kids in elementary school. There were some that were - … ahh, they were not good kids. And I kind of wanted to be like them. One of them told me about sex, and then I told my cousin what I learned, and I got in a lot of trouble for that! They were always buying stuff from CCS - which is a skate catalog. There wasn’t access to a lot of these brands locally. I remember having to beg for a Vision streetwear t-shirt. And then it being my proudest possession when I got it. But I didn’t skate, and I guess I just associated that with kids that were a little different. I kind of wanted to be like that, but growing up in a kind of sheltered and overprotected home, I didn’t go out and hang out with kids after school - I’d just go home. But I knew there was something a little different about it! They were wearing stuff that was just a little different from everyone else. I think it took some time for me to figure out what I liked. Later on into high school and then college, discovering people that were making things themself was interesting to me — and not buying stuff that was readily available everywhere. What I loved about graphic streetwear t-shirts early on was that they were largely message-driven, and they reference really deep cuts in music, or they’d make a political statement. They would be a direct reflection of the designers’ passions. I felt like that was really special, and more interesting than buying something with the brand just printed on the chest or something. You feel like when you’re buying the shirts or looking at them in a store, you’re getting to know the person who designed it a little better. And that’s always been really important to me. And something, in our own way, that we’ve tried to do with our brand. We may not make graphic t-shirts anymore; we started out in that, but my hope is that when people look at our garment or spend their hard-earned money on it and wear it for a while, they get to know the values behind what we do.
It’s important to understand your clothes and what they stand for.
There was a big gap for a long time before the internet what recourse did you really have to connect or interface with the brand. They were up in this ivory tower, and you were here [gestures to the ground]. Especially luxury, you would just buy it because you wanted to be a part of the mystic. They didn’t talk to you. A lot of them didn’t have websites. That’s completely changed. Now, I would argue that large fashion brands, especially luxury houses, depend on interaction from their customers. They need it. So, that’s what I found interesting about the brands I was attracted to. They weren’t afraid to interface.
Did you eventually get to meet the people behind the brands you looked up too?
Some of them! As our brand grew, we started to exhibit at trade shows in Las Vegas. You start to realize the operations aren’t as big as you thought. They were sitting right next to you with a folding rack and hangers with t-shirts on them. That was really cool! Streetwear got investment money, and that industry just blew up. I think - I would argue, ‘06-’08 is when venture capital dollars started to come in, and brands were growing at warp speed. So that changed significantly. That’s when brands started to get heavy distribution into Pacific Sunwear, Zumiez, and in New York City like DrJays and stuff like that. That was not something we were a part of, and I’m personally really thankful for that. But we did get to meet a lot of the people we looked up to.
Where does your brand fit on a scale of streetwear to say, something else? How would you describe 3sixteen?
I think there are still streetwear influences in what we do and the way we try to style it when we shoot. I still love graphic t-shirts; I wear them often. That will never go away! I still love sneakers. But as far as where our brand has settled in, we were part of this really interesting moment. We didn’t actively try and get in on it, but when we started making our collection in America - there is actually a really cool blog post we worked for a while on about what it meant to make our stuff in America. Back in peak menswear Tumblr days … that was a while ago for you?
Yeah, a long time!
Where you on and reading then or was that before?
I was really young, so I was looking at blogs and stuff but not necessarily in the menswear world.
So you’re discovering this retroactively?
In a way! My dad would read all the menswear blogs, so I when I started getting into he said, “Oh yeah, I read A Continuous Lean, WB Project, Backyard Bill, and all that stuff.” I definitely knew about it but wasn’t paying as much attention as I should have been!
I think it was a result of the recession that a lot of consumers starting thinking more about how they spent their money and the clothes they bought. There was this, I would say, over romanticization of Made in America product. We were almost forced into making our stuff in the U.S. We didn’t grow fast enough for the overseas factories. And so, we were a part of that moment where people were rediscovering well-made workwear and vintage military. Just as there is a uniform today, there was a uniform then. And we were a part of that; we were a part of several made in USA denim brands that really got a foothold in the marketplace. If you flip through the stores that sell our clothes, and the people that are buying our clothes on Instagram, for a while there was a pretty distinct look. I’m happy to say that we have some retail shops that push boundaries and push outside of that. And we also have customers that are continuing to discover personal style and are wearing it a little bit differently. I think that that’s important to all of us at 3sixteen. You find a way to make it yours because at our core we are a jean company, that’s what pays our bills. And jeans can be worn in a myriad of different ways.
Which is so nice that you make something that a lot of people can have a relationship with and wear in so many different ways.
As far as fashion as a whole and its interest with raw denim, it’s definitely declined from ‘08/’09. But people still need blue jeans. And so I think that’s a reason why our company, as small as it is, continues to grow every year. Despite the fact that there was a year when everybody said that they left blue jeans behind. A very loud and bold minority, maybe. I haven’t stopped wearing jeans!
A lot of people haven’t stopped and I feel like it ‘s coming back.
Yeah! Wes noticed a lot of raw dark denim on runway shows.
I’ve felt that - I think there is something really special about seeing how you can wear something and putting in the effort. I think people are slowly coming back to that idea "If I wear raw denim I have to put in the time to make them look cool.”
Yeah, maybe people reacquaint themselves - a lot of people put thought into what they wear but I think it takes a different way.
I think it takes a different level of thought and commitment.
Lawrence [Schlossman] and James [Harris] are always talking about a “post-sneaker world.” But maybe there is going to be a post-sweatpant world, you know?
I think it can happen. As people start to realize that buying clothes that make you happy, and buying clothes for yourself, especially - Lawrence and James talk about “fit pics” getting lots of likes, I think with likes going away that may affect how people buy clothes.
Yeah!
People are starting to want to invest in clothes again.
I don’t want to say it’s coming of age, but, as you get older, which I am, maybe you just start caring less about dressing for others. These last two years, I discovered baggy pants. As someone that’s not skinny, I always felt like they looked real frumpy and poorly proportioned on me, but yeah, we were shopping at Stella Dallas. I always loved the way old fatigues looked, and so “screw it, I’m just going to buy some.” They were my most worn non-jean pants over the past two years. I am getting comfortable to try different things. Overall I’m wearing clothes a bit bigger - I appreciate the comfort and mobility. If I’m still learning and discovering and changing at this age, then so will others. I think clothes are supposed to be fun and people should have fun with them. I think a lot of people have this thing in their heads, “I really want to settle into this uniform that people see and know.” It’s alright to get weird. I guess weird is different for everybody. There was a buy it for life movement, and people were dressing like people twice their age for a while. Then there was a harsh reaction against that into loungewear.
Athleisure.
Yep, exactly, I was trying to avoid that term! Athleisure reminds me of another awful term that was around when we were a streetwear brand, “scurban.”
Ah! Haven’t heard that one!
I’m so sorry to have had to give that to you! But yeah, marketing companies trying to mash things together to create a movement and sell clothes. I’m just really proud that we are still making the same things we were making 10-11 years ago and making improvements to them here and there, trying to make the garment better in every possible way. We started out in the fall of 2008, making the SL100X, which is our straight leg raw indigo selvedge jeans. We still make it and people still buy it - which is really cool. Loving and appreciating vintage clothing and having friends that are in the industry like Brian [Davis] and Jaime [Wong]. There is something really special about - like when you have those old Levi’s on [points to my jeans], maybe there will be some old 3sixteen jeans in a well-curated vintage store 40-50 years from now.
I’d love to hear more about how you got into menswear, the early menswear days.
So we as a brand had started to pivot and build a full collection in ’07. Our first head to toe men’s collection was fall 2008. We took a major risk and lost a lot of retailers because most of them were accustomed to selling $40 t-shirts from us and not $150 flannel. The recession didn’t help that, and so we were looking towards higher-end men’s contemporary shops to try and stock the brand. They didn’t know who we were and we didn’t have any pedigree coming from some larger fashion house. We were just two dudes trying to make cool clothes and have people buy them! And so, the way in at that time was a tradeshow called Capsule. It was pretty curated. They wouldn’t just take anybody. We had to go to the BPMW offices - it was the sales agency that started the show - and we had to show them our collection. It was like starting all over again, we were a streetwear brand that was selling to 150 stores worldwide, and it was like starting from scratch and putting all of this work on a rolling rack in front of somebody hoping that they saw something in it.
Going to the trade show circuit, going from having appointments every half hour on the dot, just people pumping through, to just sitting at a table hoping somebody would stop and look. I think Capsule was this really awesome meeting place for a lot of people. Jeremy [Kirkland], Lawrence, and Jon Moy, the three of them decided to start their brand Run of the Mill after walking Capsule one year. I remember Jeremy and John in the back of Self Edge, 2009, telling me about this idea they had to do private label products rebranded as their own. They were all fashion enthusiasts that were writing about clothes on their own, and I think that their natural progression was “if we love and appreciate clothes so much we want to make some.” So, they got together and started working on that. Being in downtown New York and having an office in the back of a retail shop on Orchard Street meant that people were always passing through and checking in. There was this accessibility that we had then that we don’t have now that our office is on the second floor - you can’t just look in and see if someone is there. People would come through and hang out for an hour or two, drink a coffee. It was a pretty special time where people were trying to figure out how they could get in and carve a place out for themselves in the industry. These were all pretty young people; some had graduated from college; some had decided to leave college and try and do something on their own. It’s actually pretty stunning to see how far a lot of them have come. You see them all over the industry!
It’s amazing, they’ve come a long way!
We got to shoot our lookbook with Nico Lazaro for Fall-Winter. He used to come hang out at Self Edge and sit in the client chair and talk to my manager Thomas and me. So the shop and the brand are two separate entities, but because we were under one roof, people would pass through all the time. Nico, we’ve known him since 2009, it’s fun to be able to reconnect. Anyone who was around in that era of internet menswear recognized him immediately when we put the lookbook up. It was a fun little wink to them. I was fortunate to be around and be able to meet and work with a lot of them. I’m proud of all of them. A lot of them got in on their own terms; it’s not easy. The traditional way would be to go to design or fashion school, work internships, and hope. They got in through walking trade shows, writing, taking pictures, and proving their worth in a different way. Because of the internet where you are able to share and follow people from afar, that’s why bigger companies were able to take notice.
You’re able to form this little group too. Which helps if you have all those people to help support you!
Are there any bands or songs that had an effect on your style?
I would say early 90s hip-hop was one of my favorite eras of music itself, east coast rap, but also the way that they dress. We have this running joke that Fall Winter 19 was just this excuse to finally recreate the cover of Capone-N-Noreaga because we made a tiger stripe BDU and some cinch bottom fatigues. Then we also worked with Viberg to produce this real lux version of the 6-inch Timberland wheat boot. I can’t think of another footwear brand I love more than Viberg. From construction, to leather sourcing, to innovation, they are obsessive over detail and continual improvement. I learn a lot from them.
One thing Wes and I noticed is that this was such a low budget shoot, it’s these two generals and their army, but the army is just them clone stamped in the back! It’s so sick! Amazing, amazing album. I started buying records 5-6 years ago; otherwise, people will never get to see and touch their music anymore.
Do you have your kids listen to a lot of records? Is that how you introduce them to music?
I try to!! They are strong-willed, and they listen to what they want to listen to. Every once in a while, I forced them to take their medicine, and we listen to something together.
What’s the main album you have them listen to?
I try and get them to listen to hard bop jazz; it’s what I’m really into, among other things. It’s a little too out there or whatnot for them.
I feel like they’ll come around eventually. The last three years I started relistening to all the music my parents would play and I was like, “This is is GOOD!” I think it takes a bit of time.
I try and find things that are more upbeat with a rhythm they can follow along with. They really like Roy Ayers, they like old Kool & the Gang which is awesome, they like George Duke. Sometimes it just takes someone else telling them to listen to it for it to click. It can’t come from me; it’s a theme all parents say! Look at freaking George Duke; this could be a Visvim robe! This is sick! This outfit goes! This typeface is amazing.
Is there anything you wear every day that has meaning or a story behind it?
There are a few things that currently are on every day. I’m in the same jeans until I’m not - until they melt and fall apart. These are probably three years old now. Glasses! I have to wear them everyday. These two necklaces do not leave my neck, because they’re already on, and they go with everything. I’ll tuck them into a t-shirt if I want to. I really love this bracelet from Good Art. I found out about this brand when we started stocking it at Self Edge. It’s designed by Josh Warner. I learned a lot from him, just becoming friends with him and being up close with all of his products. I was never a huge jewelry guy - I like a couple of rings here and there, but yeah, Good Art made me fall in love with wearing jewelry every day.
Is that where your necklaces are from?
Yeah! The way he designs is so thoughtful.
It’s always fun to find those brands that change the way you thought about an entire piece of clothing or an accessory.
Lots of people have a curb chain type bracelet, but this is unreal. Look at the way the clasp works; when it’s on, you almost can’t figure out where it starts and finishes. When it pivots, it pivots this way and that way, so you actually forget that it’s on. He’s so crazy that all of the hardware inside the mechanism is all made in-house with sterling silver. So there is a spring in there, he makes the spring, the spring is sterling silver, you’ll never see if but he has to know he made it.
That’s incredible!
Early on, he told me the hardware is the most important part of the piece.
Yeah, with everything else you try and hide it!
He’s like, “Wear the clasp out. The clasp should be beautiful; how it operates should be beautiful.” I thought that was really interesting and that’s probably informed how we design too. There aren’t things you should have to hide about what you design, especially since we are making a product that is not strictly utilitarian. I like to think people buy our stuff because it lasts a long time and it will wear well, but also that thought was put into how things were assembled, the little things maybe only you’ll notice are just as important to the garment design.
For sure. You want a piece that’s made well in its entirety!
Being a part of Self Edge and meeting people along the way. I feel like they are always passively and actively informing the way that we work.
Do you buy “too much” of anything?
It used to be blue shirts but now it’s olive pants! Everything blue shirts.
Blue t-shirts? Blue button downs? Everything blue?
Yeah. And as of late it’s been a lot of olive drab.
Did that start when you started the baggy pant thing?
Yeah!
I feel like olive pants are always baggy.
They have to be right? Skinny olive pants…
Was denim ever something you bought too much of?
I think my appreciation for denim grew as the brand grew. Prior to us starting to make jeans ourselves, I wouldn’t spend more than $100 on jeans. So that was kind of weird; I also didn’t know that we would turn into a denim brand. I remember when our partner for Self Edge, Kiya [Babzani], started how outlandish it was. I knew $300 jeans existed. I just never bought them; it wasn’t something I wanted to spend money on. I always wanted more expensive sneakers but never really thought too much about jeans. When Self Edge opened up, and they were selling $250-$300 pairs of Japanese denim, it didn’t click for me right away. But again, being around that and being around people that appreciated that when we decided to make our first pair of jeans, we actually asked Kiya for advice. We ended up with a jean that was much better than other jeans in the marketplace. It could have just been a flash in the pan, make 100 pairs, and can’t sell them.
Just hope that someone buys them.
We were in this space where we weren’t making them at an artisanal level in Japan, and we didn’t know what the market level in the US for jeans that were $200. I’m thankful that it worked out. Jeans made way for Johan and me to support our families and grow the business. Work with really-really talented and great people at our office every day. None of that would have been possible if people didn’t see something in the jeans.
Is there anything, or anyone, you think is doing something particularly well right now?
I love what Aaron Levine is doing on Instagram right now.
Oh me too!
He is one of the kindest people I’ve met in the industry. At the very first Pop Up Flea we had a booth there, and he had a booth next to us, for this now-defunct hat brand he was doing it with Ian Velardi, who is also extremely talented and a great guy. They were fashion industry professionals, Johan and I were just trying to figure out how to make clothes. He was so gracious and kind, there was one time when he was the creative director at Rogue Gallery, we chatted over email, and he had a fabric connect from Japan that was coming to show him new fabrics. He said, “You should come see.” I didn’t think that people worked that way. I figured people would try and protect their contacts and not having people pulling from the same places. But he invited me to this huge office, and we flipped through really beautiful fabric together. I haven’t forgotten that. When he was at Club Monaco, he brought us in to sell our jeans there, which I thought was cool, it was an opportunity to put what we did in front of a wider audience. I love seeing him, again we’re both older guys with kids, but he’s still having fun with clothes, and excited about clothes. I love that he’ll always keep it a little tongue and cheek and tell people important things. Like there are gems in there if you really read the captions!
I love them!!
Things people can actually learn from. And not just how to find things on eBay.
It's really important to read now, especially since so much about fashion and Instagram is just about the outfit. He makes you think about all the other thoughts and feelings that are involved.
They always say when you’re younger that you are not trying to hear anything from people that are older than you, but I learned a lot in talking with him; he might not realize that. The way that he carried himself. That’s why when people reach out to try and have coffee, I try and make myself available too.
You don’t forget the people that helped you. I think that’s so important in this industry because it seems from the outside like nobody is really helping each other. I know, for me, when I reach out to get coffee with someone, and they say yes, it means so much. The people that I’ve met, they change something for you every time.
And we all have to keep on learning. We are still trying to figure out how to make men's clothes! There is a lot to learn about how to do business the right way and treat people with respect.
What are 5 songs/albums you always play?
Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage